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Lost in Pooh
Lost Expert
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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Location: Springdale, Ar
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 Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject: Man of Science, Man of Faith - A Spaceship Earth Theory |
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"It is a well-provisioned ship, this on which we sail through space. If the bread and beef above decks seem to grow scarce, we but open a hatch and there is a new supply, of which before we never dreamed. And very great command over the services of others comes to those who as the hatches are opened are permitted to say, 'This is mine!'"- Progress & Poverty
Science
Homeostasis - The ability or tendency of an organism or cell to maintain internal equilibrium by adjusting its physiological processes.
Self Organization
Faith
The Gaia Hypothesis – I suggest Chapter 2. This could be put in science too, but my theory is a little more extreme, so I am putting it in faith.
Genesis 1:1- 1:31
Genesis 4:1 – 4:16
It is important that you take the time to review some of the links I have provided to make my theory more believable. Its borderline sci-fi, but I believe it is closer to reality than anything, and this is something the creators have said, “it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. "We're still trying to be ... firmly ensconced in the world of science fact."
If we are going to have a series that pits science vs. faith, we are allowed to delve into ‘sci-fi’, well faith isn’t sci-fi, but you get what I mean.
Do no dishonor to the earth least you dishonor the spirit of man. – Henry Beston
You know how comic books are exaggerations of everyday life? All superheroes have their strengths (superpowers) and weaknesses. Just like humans. We as human beings have our strengths. A brain capable of amazing thoughts and ideas, and we have our weaknesses. When talking physical weaknesses, how do we compare to a lion. Are you protected from a bite to the neck? Nope. That’s why a lion goes for the neck. It’s a weakness. We use our strengths to protect us. Our strengths make us weapons to fend off the beast. Or body armor to protect our vitals. Imagine if the Earth was a living thing. Not as an animal, but as a very complex plant. When I say complex, I mean a little sentient. What are we protecting when we protect ourselves? Wear helmets when doing dangerous activities. We were protective chest and neck equipment when going into battle, or a football game. Why do we protect those parts, and, say, not our legs or arms as much? It’s because we have organs that must be protected to continue life. These organs do complex things to keep us functioning as human beings. If the Earth is a living being, where are its vital organs? How does it protect its organs. How does it scratch an itch, or put on a helmet? If you’ve read the links provided above, you’ll see that the Earth does many things to compensate or regulate itself. The Earth, if alive, is a complex being. Maybe even more complex than you or I. What if the Earth had vital organs like us? What if one of those organs was hidden for the life of itself. What if a recent activity caused this organ to reveal itself? I suggest that the island is a location of one of these vital organs of the Earth. Sometime in the first half of the 20th century, this island had emerged. As one of the articles above suggests, man is actually an important part of Earth. One of the arguments is that in order for Earth to be a living being, it has to reproduce. Someone suggested that man is its form of reproduction. When it finds the necessary time, man will learn to terraform on other planets. We get all our resources from the Earth, so this theory is reasonably possible.
The Hanso Legacy
Toward the end of the century Hanso found this island. I’m playing with the idea that there was a Hanso Legacy. It all began with the Black Rock. Hanso had an ancestor on that ship, and this man, Magnus Hanso if you will, had made a map of the location of the island. One way or another Magnus was able to get word back to his family along with the map. He wrote of how the island appeared out of nowhere and his last known whereabouts before becoming shipwrecked. For generations, the Hanso family has been looking for this island. The legend was that Magnus had found the Fountain of Youth upon this island. The message of the Fountain of Youth was encrypted into his letter home. It was never found till Alvar. An island that seemed to appear out of thin air, then disappear. Alvar, being in the position that he was, was able to fund a research team to study the island, and Alvar knew the island was key to world peace.
The Dharma Initiative
Dharma, the funded group, after a few preliminary studies, had other ideas. World domination. Dharma also ran some unethical experiments without the knowledge of Alvar. After some inspections, Alvar ordered some of the experimental programs to be shutdown. Some were, and some were not. The Dharma Initiative felt constricted with their now limited research abilities. One of these studies involved the source of the electromagnetivity, and possibly the miraculous recovery of many diseases. Dharma had used and abused this portion of the island, the heart of the island if you will, and after some time an incident occurred. The incident was the near death of the heart. Dharma was able to save the heart, but it involved the task of continuously administering a particular routine for the heart to survive. What originally was a “research and obtain”, became “support and doctor.” Soon after this incident, Dharma was officially shutdown by Hanso. Being so deep into their beliefs and research, Dharma refused. Knowing the island, Dharma had the advantage, and within the next year or so, they were able to secretly infiltrate the Hanso Foundation, and in the process corrupting it. The Dharma Initiative was so secretive, that even some of their own didn’t know what was going on. Not all of Dharma was with the decision to retaliate. A few, refusing to follow Dharma, went into hiding. Enter the Others.
The Others and The Survivors
Earth was in danger. What seems like a chaotic turn of events to get a select few to the island was really a well orchestrated plan to save the Earth. As we are also a part of the organism that is Earth, we are the only ones that can save it. The children are the medicine, and the adults are the doctors. With some rejected research by Dharma, the Others had figured out that the planet was in danger. Like our survivors had visions of certain events, the Others also had visions. The most important one was of Oceanic “crashing” on the island. They had a mission. Recover the children. They didn’t know “why”, they just knew the “what”.
Evidence and Opinions
To quote Isaac in SOS
| Quote: | | There are certain places with great energy -- spots on the Earth like the one we're above now. Perhaps this energy is geological -- magnetic. Or perhaps it's something else. And when possible I harness this energy and give it to others. |
These spots are the Earth's major 'organs' capable of sustaining it's own life.
Remember Desmond was asked what the button did. His answer was "just saving the world".
The black smoke is a new being created by the Earth to help it protect the island, or as Danielle said, a security system.
Conclusion and Expectations
Through out this story we see a constant struggle between Faith and Science. Faith has the Others, Alvar Hanso, and some survivors. Science has the rest of Dharma, and some of the survivors. Asking “why did they take the kids?” “What does the button do?” is like asking, “Why does God let children die?” or “Why can’t God save my mom?” Just cause science can’t answer it, doesn’t mean faith won’t either. I believe we will see more of the Others, and we will come to realize that they ARE good people, like some of them have been saying. We will see more people’s faith being tested, and even our own faith will be tested. Every argument in these forums is basically a faith vs. science question. Both faith and science is the tool for the unknown. If there is an unknown, there will always be science and faith to keep us treading into it. Everything in Lost can be put into these 2 categories, just like every individual watching the show. So you got to ask yourself, are you a man of faith? Or a man of science?[/quote]
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Lost in Pooh
Lost Expert
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 298
Location: Springdale, Ar
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Update - Added Evidence and Opinions
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thekdxbuddy
Lost Newbie
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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i like it. there are some things i don't really jive with but overall it's the most realistic theory and whould explain why dharma appears to be defunct
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Lost in Pooh
Lost Expert
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
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Location: Springdale, Ar
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| Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I thought of this theory and researched some of the "Earth is alive" ideas out there, and was able to make it fit with Lost. I was so happy that things clicked. Then I remembered something that basically made this theory nil. One of Walt's backward talks was said to be "Don't push the button, the button is bad." But like with all other theories out there, I've got to morph my theory around this event, and make it work. What doesn't jive with you? Maybe I can convince you even more. 
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Lost in Pooh
Lost Expert
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 298
Location: Springdale, Ar
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| Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm seeing new people in this forum. So I wanted to bump my theory. I got one opinion on it, and I'd like some more. Please note that this theory was posted a day before the second to last episode, and from what I can remember the theory is still 'in play' as it were.
I see a lot of great stuff in these forums, and look forward to reading them all.
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just another other
I am Him
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5353
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| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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There is some brilliant stuff here.... I love the originality of this....
| Quote: | | Do no dishonor to the earth least you dishonor the spirit of man. – Henry Beston |
All of the stuff under this title is amazing. I do think that you are onto something with 'the organs of the earth', and what we know about the properties of the island, and what Isaac said.....
| Quote: | | Dharma had used and abused this portion of the island, the heart of the island if you will, and after some time an incident occurred. The incident was the near death of the heart. |
Again, this ties in with what I have said above, and this is a brilliant way of describing what the incident was..... I do think that the 'saving the world' idea may actually be quite close to what the reality of the button and the computer does.....
| Quote: | | Soon after this incident, Dharma was officially shutdown by Hanso. Being so deep into their beliefs and research, Dharma refused. Knowing the island, Dharma had the advantage, and within the next year or so, they were able to secretly infiltrate the Hanso Foundation, and in the process corrupting it |
Again, I find this an interesting idea, but I am not entirely sure what you mean.... how exactly would Dharma corrupt Hanso? What would they do?
| Quote: | | Through out this story we see a constant struggle between Faith and Science. Faith has the Others, Alvar Hanso, and some survivors. Science has the rest of Dharma, and some of the survivors. Asking “why did they take the kids?” “What does the button do?” is like asking, “Why does God let children die?” or “Why can’t God save my mom?” Just cause science can’t answer it, doesn’t mean faith won’t either. I believe we will see more of the Others, and we will come to realize that they ARE good people, like some of them have been saying. We will see more people’s faith being tested, and even our own faith will be tested. Every argument in these forums is basically a faith vs. science question. Both faith and science is the tool for the unknown. If there is an unknown, there will always be science and faith to keep us treading into it. Everything in Lost can be put into these 2 categories, just like every individual watching the show. So you got to ask yourself, are you a man of faith? Or a man of science? |
This is the stuff that really makes me like this theory. I couldn't agree more with the thigs you have here....
I agree that some questions just cannot be answered (or at least yet)....
I agree that faith vs. science will eventually dictate the entire outcome of the show....
I agree that The Others will eventually be revealed as 'good' people....
Finally, I have some questions on this theory, as I feel that some of the gaps need to be filled....
What do you think the smoke is?
How do you think the smoke works? And who for?
Why exactly do you think the children are needed?
How do the visions work?
Do you think that Dharma and Hanso will come back into the story?
And what do you mean by this stuff:
| Quote: | | The legend was that Magnus had found the Fountain of Youth upon this island. The message of the Fountain of Youth was encrypted into his letter home. It was never found till Alvar. An island that seemed to appear out of thin air, then disappear. Alvar, being in the position that he was, was able to fund a research team to study the island, and Alvar knew the island was key to world peace. |
? I understand what you are getting at, but could you please elaborate on it?
That's a lot of questions, I know, but I am truly intrigued by these ideas.... 
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Lost in Pooh
Lost Expert
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 298
Location: Springdale, Ar
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think the smoke is?
I'm going to cheat, and use a bit of info that I got from the Lost ARG. First a little recap of previous statements said by the creaters. Thee question asked was if the smoke are nanobots. I will quote each article, and give it's source...
[quote=Cinescape.com]Lindelof explained in no uncertain terms that the mysterious cloud of black smoke that appeared after Kate dynamited the hole down which Locke was being dragged is not a cloud of nanobots. "Of course," he added, "that depends on how you define 'nanobot'."[/quote]
[quote=Javi @ Fuselage.com]...at comicon damon said that the monster is not a cloud of nanites a la michael crichton's "prey".[/quote]
But what's odd is this transcript from a DJ Dan podcast on the Lost ARG. Here is the transcript...
| Quote: | C3: Dan, this is Franklin, I teach bioengineering at a Big 10 university.
D: Hut hut Franklin, hike me the info!
C3: Well, what I'm worried about is nanotechnology.
D: Uh, nanotech-whuh?
C3: Nanotechnology? It's essentially the minuturization of machines down to the molecular level.
D: Uh wait whoah whoah whoah, you mean robots so small that they're invisible? That sounds awful! Why would anyone want to do that?
C3: Well, there's lots of useful applications. Medicine, computers. For example, you could capture billions of these nanites--
D: Nanites? Is that geek for invisible tiny robots?
C3: Right--you could capture them in an electromagnetic field and have them float over--say--wheat fields, acting as a poison-free pesticide.
D: Whoah whoah wait a minute--what does that even look like? If a bunch of these nano-thingies got together--
C3: Something like a--storm cloud.
D: [Laugh] OK, Frankie... you know, sometimes a storm cloud is just a storm cloud. So wait a second, wait a second. So you're saying these uh, tiny invisible robots can kill?
C3: Yes. And they can think.
D: Well, you heard it folks, tiny invisible killer brains. And I was worrying about the Hanso Foundation. DJ Dan, back in three, gotta slip into my impenetrable, lead suit...
A: You're listening to DJ Dan, shutting down The Man. |
I thought to myself, "So which is it? It is nanobots? Or it's not?" I did a little research and participated in a little debate on this thread. I basically suggest that maybe the black smoke is/are organic nanobots.
How do you think the smoke works? And who for?
Think of a piranhas, bees, or ants. They work together collectively to achieve a goal. I believe that they are highly intelligent organisms that report directly to the Earth. The Earth typically takes time to respond to a crisis. Example. Forest fires. Some trees thrive on them. It's part of their cycle. Lightning starts a forest fire. Forest fire clears the land. Clearing allows new trees to grow. Some trees are fire resistant. My point is that this process takes time. When the Earths life is at stake, drastic times calls for drastic measures. That’s where the black smoke comes in. We don't truly know what this thing does, but it's looking like it's protecting the island, and it has been quoted a few times on the show.
Why exactly do you think the children are needed?
This part relies a lot on faith. Remembering a lot of movies I've seen, children are capable of seeing things that we can't. A gross example is in some movies they play with the idea that only children can see ghosts, and animals for that matter. I haven't seen this element in Lost yet, but I feel that will be an important part of the show. Not ghosts, but the idea of seeing and believing things because of faith. We have something most children don’t, and that’s doubt. If you tell a kid there are monsters under his bed, he’s going to believe you. It’s a mix of innocence and faith, and that’s why I think children are more capable to carry out Earth’s plans.
How do the visions work?
I haven’t decided which version I like best. I’ll throw you some ideas that I’m playing with. The Earth some how either chose savant children, or helped in the creation of these savant children. The latter we can say was done with organic chemicals in the air that the mother may have inhaled while pregnant. Seems far-fetched, but not scientifically impossible. The children chosen to save the Earth either voluntarily, or involuntarily projected these images to others to lead them. Remember when Jack had visions of his dad? When you watch it, you assume that his dad led him to his coffin. In my opinion, the image of his father led Jack to shelter and water. They were looking for some in the same episode. Earths way of keeping them alive. We’ve seen other images, but I feel they will reveal themselves later on in the series. This part also has some weight in Skinner Boxes. If you can remember the orientation film mentioned that the DeGroots were B.F. Skinner fans. So another angle we can take is that Dharma used savants to build the ultimate Skinner Box. Telepathic projections to make people do things that Dharma wants them to do. So the visions could be either controlled solely by the savants, or by the savants with the help of Dharma’s experiments.
Do you think that Dharma and Hanso will come back into the story?
If you are following the ARG, you’ll know the main mystery is “Where is Alvar Hanso.” I get the sneaky suspicion that this game will end with finding Alvar alive or dead on the island. This will go perfectly with Season 3. We have a mysterious “Him”, and if from the looks of it, Season 3 will involve the Others. So why not have Alvar? Maybe get some flashbacks from him and learn of Hanso’s corruption. I think he will be back. I believe Dharma will be back in history form, whether it be flashbacks, or more tapes.
And what do you mean by this stuff:
Quote:
The legend was that Magnus had found the Fountain of Youth upon this island. The message of the Fountain of Youth was encrypted into his letter home. It was never found till Alvar. An island that seemed to appear out of thin air, then disappear. Alvar, being in the position that he was, was able to fund a research team to study the island, and Alvar knew the island was key to world peace.
I didn’t do a good job of writing that. Basically it is how the island was found in the first place. Before Earth was in danger. Magnus was a business man of yore. On one of his sea voyages, he became shipwrecked upon an island. I’ll go ahead and say the island came out from under the water. Considering the wreckage was not on shore. Magnus and his crew are marooned on this island. He also discovers what I call the “Fountain of Youth.” Maybe the some of the crew were sick, and mysteriously got better. Magnus came to realize it was the island itself. Being the prospecting business man he was, he saw dollar signs (or whatever they were spending back then;)). Magnus made a map, but it was encrypted so no one else would find it but him. He figures out how to leave the island. He returns later, and this is when he dies. Don’t ask me how, cause I haven’t thought of that yet. But his map survives. His family knows of the island, but Magnus never revealed how to find it. It was a family mystery till Alvar Hanso found the island. He started a research team to conduct studies to aid in world peace. Dharma did do what Alvar asked, but at the same time did their own studies, and sometimes unethical. After an inspection from Hanso himself, he ordered the shutdown of the project. This is where Dharma split. Good guys/bad guys. The bad guys spent the next 10-20 years attempting to corrupt the Foundation. You see this in the ARG. Again, remember that my theory was written before the game, and so far my theory is staying true to the game that I can see. Dharma had the advantage with the savants. Remote viewing, whatever you can think of.
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just another other
I am Him
Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5353
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We don't truly know what this thing does, but it's looking like it's protecting the island, and it has been quoted a few times on the show. |
I like this idea... it is very original, and probably is the most plausible. If the smoke is it's own entity, then that would mean that it would have links to nothing. The idea that the smoke could in fact rule the island is an intriguing one....
| Quote: | | Not ghosts, but the idea of seeing and believing things because of faith. We have something most children don’t, and that’s doubt. If you tell a kid there are monsters under his bed, he’s going to believe you. It’s a mix of innocence and faith, and that’s why I think children are more capable to carry out Earth’s plans. |
That is what I was hoping you would think. If your theory is correct, then I think that this is EXACTLY why the children are necessary..... the idea of this, linked with the 'room' that Miss. Klugh told Walt and Michael about does make for an intersting point.... this could be what the 'room' is used for - to work on the naivety of children....
| Quote: | | If you are following the ARG, you’ll know the main mystery is “Where is Alvar Hanso.” |
I do follow the ARG, and I think that this theme is prevailant, but not actually important. I think that the search for Hanso will not lead to the 'final' answer, but will simply encounter other interesting things along the way.... I think, and hope, that we will find very little about Alvar in both the show, and in the ARG....
| Quote: | | Remote viewing, whatever you can think of. |
I created a theory about this a while ago, and I am not heaping praise upon myself, but I think that this idea is a very interesting and plausible one. It would be amazing if the writers went down this route at some point. Maybe not to explain the whole show, as this would be a disappointment, but a few included aspects would be brilliant.....
Everything else you have offered, I have nothing to add to, but I do like....
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lost_ocean
Lost Expert
Joined: 21 May 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: |
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This theory is very unique. I like it.
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unionx
Lost is my Life
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 618
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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good theory but sounds like final fantasy seven with all this lifestream and earth stuff, next you might say Jack is Cloud, his dad Zack, Ethan as Sephiroth, and Ben as Jenova and the Sephiroth visions, what next Kate as Tifa and Ana Lucia as Aeris/Aerith, yeah right!
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zombie_soiree
I know the secret
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 16736
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I don't agree with most of this theory, but I liked the idea that Cerberus might be some form of organic nanobot, like a swarm of organisms designed to perform one simple function. That was definitely something new! One of the first things computer modeling was able to achieve was to realistically reproduce the movements of simple organisms like insects.
Still, I have no doubt that Cerberus was created by DHARMA. It was built to guard the facilities on the island, and probably was related to "Purging" the Hostiles. Then, at some point, it became a "bad robot" and turned on its creators. We know this from the blast door map, where Radzinski theorized that the Staff was abandoned due to its malfunctioning. Who or what, if anything, is running Cerberus now is a total mystery.
I'd like to see how you would explain how such a creature might be created by man. It doesn't go along with your Gaia theory of its genesis, but wouldn't its rebellion make sense--in the "global" approach? It would be a moment reminiscent of "Jurassic Park," where nature "finds a way" to thwart man's selfish intentions for it. Anyway, the power would be in your explanation.
Interesting new approach.
Z
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