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THE SEVENTH SEAL THEORY 5/8 work in progress
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andrew smith
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: THE SEVENTH SEAL THEORY 5/8 work in progress Reply with quote

The original Seventh Seal Theory is re-posted on page 54.

This revision is work-in-progress.

1 comic
2 theory
3 'evidence'


1, page1/8


page2/8


page3/8


page4/8


page5/8 - nearly finished



The island as a conduit of Destiny
The island is largely black rock - a naturally occurring magnetic mineral. It has the uncanny property of storing electromagnetic currents - like a big magnetic tape.

Magnus Hanso - grandfather of Alvar Hanso and venture capitalist - captained his ship The Black Rock to the island in the nineteenth century. He intended to use slaves and dynamite to mine the fabled black rock and sell it. However, he was caught in a storm - as many are near the island - and was shipwrecked.

He survived, but the slaves were lost. Whilst making a boat to leave the island, Magnus thought he could hear the screams of his cargo as the ship sank. He thought the melancholy would pass, but it did not; in fact, it was as though he could literally hear their thoughts in the last moments of their lives - even in their foreign tongue.

The whispers, the voices, the memories were stronger in those areas that were predominantly black rock. They were coming from the black rock itself. As lava cools it records the earth's pattern of magnetic currents at the time; in a similar way, the black rock was storing all electromagnetic activity - light, sound, thought, memory.

Of greater significance to Magnus was that the black rock also held the pattern of the future. Magnus was able to faintly sense how things would be.

Magnus made a boat, returned home, kept his mouth shut about what he'd discovered, and bought the island. He came back many times and was able to navigate the safest approach. On the island, he would meditate on what the future held - what the rock was telling him - and then commit this to paper. He would then return to the centres of commerce and use these predictions to speculate and invest in forthcoming wars, selling munitions and so on. He amassed a great fortune. The secret of the island and the wealth was passed down through the Hanso family to Alvar Hanso in the 20th century.


Destiny calculated
A mathematician named Valenzetti calculated a mathematical formula for the end of the world - the 'core numbers' of which are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42. These numbers occur everywhere, he said, and predict earth's destruction. This finding was presented to the United Nations; they ignored it.

Alvar learnt of this formula and knew that it was correct as it correlated with what the island had revealed to him. He enlisted the help of Valenzetti and many others to form the DHARMA Initiative, the purpose of which was to change these numbers - and so avert the predicted destruction of earth. Turning his fortune towards the good of the world.

DHARMA was based on the island. The greatest scientists he could get were brought to the island in secrecy - as were gifted children who had great mental agility bordering on psychic.

Various stations were set up on the island to perform experiments: the objective of which was to change Destiny itself. One station was the Swan; initially, it was a Skinner Box - a psychological experiment to test two subjects' willingness to repeatedly press a button because they were told it was important. The intention here was to see if their faith in their 'duty' was sufficient to budge Destiny a millimetre.

Another station - the Pearl - was also set up. This experiment was based on another pair of subjects who were told to observe the actions of the occupants of the Swan. The objective here, based on Quantum Theory, was to see if - by observation alone - the outcome of the Swan could be affected.

Unfortunately, none of the experiments were successful in altering Destiny and a more direct approach was adopted.


A direct approach to changing Destiny or the 'Incident'
It was decided to try and dam the flow of Destiny from the island to the outside world - to stop the current.

Jacob was selected as the most suitable subject. He was a gifted boy able to move tiny objects with his mind. Objects suspended in an electromagnetic field exaggerated this gift by reducing friction with the ground. In such a field, even relatively heavy objects such as lumps of rock could be moved with the mind alone.


It was hoped that - if the rock could store human memory electromagnetically - then, perhaps, the reverse would be and a human mind could absorb this electromagnetic memory from the rock and manipulate it. The intention was always to change Destiny.

Jacob was placed at the epicentre of the island's power in an underground chamber. Powered up, wired up, and observed by a team of scientists including Dr Marvin Candle, Jacob attempted to absorb Destiny from the black rock. Unfortunately, the power was too great and he failed catastrophically; there was an explosion, referred to later as the "incident".

Jacob reborn as the black smoke
At that moment, Jacob lost all corporeal form and was merged with the black rock itself. But he survived. His consciousness was embedded in broken fragments and dust of the rock.

After a horrifying period of awareness and adjustment to his new form, he was again able to move objects - as he had in human form... but now it meant he could lift himself - in the form of rock dust and move freely. The naturally-ocurring electromagnetic field around the area of the Swan assisted in his mobility and sustained his life.


Jacob was able to move as a black cloud of dust and re-form himself into different shapes. He soon learnt that he could also use operate at different electromagnetic frequencies to conjure up images and sound. And later still, that he could 'download' minds as we saw he did with Eko.
PICTURE OF YEMI, HORSE, JACK'S DAD, DAVE, CAT.
PICTURE EKO MIND READING


Anomalies and ripples in Destiny
DHARMA had failed in changing Destiny and had actually made things worse by creating a massive anomaly - an irregularity in the flow of Desinty from the island and outwards. Alvar was despondent. He and his wife returned to the island to die. They laid themselves down in two alcoves and allowed Jacob to peacefully end them. In Alvar's pocket was a pouch containing two stones - one black and one white - one for him and one for his wife. They thought that if they could, after death, find these two stones and reside in them as separate consciousnesses then Jacob would absorb them into his form. As long as the black rock existed, they would be immortal. It worked; and Jacob became a 'three-headed' entity, referred to as 'Cerberus' on the blast door map created by Radzinsky. (Cerberus was the three-headed guard dog of Greek mythology).
PICTURE OF STONES
PICTURE OF CERBERUS N BLAST DOOR

Rebellion and Anarchy
With the Incident, a new super power had arrived: Jacob. Whilst powerful as a cloud of black smoke that could shape-change, create illusions and fly around menacingly: the real power came from the close connection he had with the island which is essentially the source of Destiny. While the US and USSR had [have] the nuclear capability to destroy the Earth many times over: here was a confused boy emerging as a troubled destroyer and trickster ("Jacob" meaning "mischief") with the potential to screw up Destiny itself.

The US and USSR started paying attention and dispatched spies to infiltrate the formerly hippy-like DHARMA community. They gathered information and sought to split DHARMA, playing on malcontents such as Ben and his father. Soon paradise was lost.

The 'incident' as described by Dr Marvin Candle (who lost an arm in the explosion) in Orientation and the resultant disturbance and build-up of power now necessitated the periodic release of the electromagnetism. The periodic release prevented another disaster. The whole area of the 'incident' was concreted. And now the Swan had a genuine use: to release electromagnetism every 108 minutes to an orbiting satellite with a 5 minute pass-over. For this task they conscripted the help of two people they knew to be spies: Radzinsky and Inman for USSR and USA respectively.

DHARMA realised they could not - or should not - try to change Destiny. However, the long-term effect of the incident was to create an anomaly in Destiny that might itself be the cause of the predicted cataclysm on earth. This needed to be corrected now. The anomaly had pulled in a ship of scientists - including a pregnant Rousseau - and shipwrecked it. [What was left of] DHARMA realised that this ship was never 'meant' to be shipwrecked on the island and that their meddling with Destiny would create anomalies of wider and potentially more dangerous significance.

The scientists sought to correct their mistake before it snowballed. It was a difficult task to perform without screwing up Destiny further but they had the resources.

However, the spies had split DHARMA and many former DHARMA people were now living in the jungle. The purge brought them Ben and - as part of his deal - the deactivation of the fence and, more importantly, the enigmatic Jacob. Ben used his leverage as Jacob's 'agent' to manipulate - and still does - the Hostiles/Others. Ben is de facto the leader - all communication with Jacob is through him. Ben is 'the man behind the curtain' (hence the allsuion to the Wizard of Oz and Henry Gale), Jacob is the illusion he employs to maintain power and protect the island.


The Test
[When Locke and Ben go to see Jacob, they step over a line of greyish dust - this is the medium of black rock dust through which Jacob moves as the black smoke. As Jacob sheds the mantle of physicality, the rock dust settles in a large circle around his consciousness.]

The Others nominally continue the idealism of DHARMA: they wish individuals to become the best that they can be: to shed fear, anger and other negative feelings. In this societal group therapy, Jacob plays the part of father, mother, lover, favourite pet. Oedipus complex? Jacob can be the father you always wanted to kill - kill him and then get over it. Having schizophrenic visions of an imaginary friend called Dave? Jacob will be Dave - jump off a cliff with Dave and get over it. Having guilt about killing people and drug trafficking in Nigeria? Jacob will be your brother and priest - confess and get over it.

Jacob, in this role, is a psychiatric drug and the psychiatrist all in one. He brings the subject to a crisis, a junction in their lives, where they either transcend their past, their baggage, or revert. Those that pass the Test are brought into the Others' fold.

Locke's Test was to kill the father who had destroyed his life. The Others tied him to a post and asked Locke to kill him. However, this was not really Locke's father but Jacob mimicking Locke's father based on the source material of Locke's recollections of his father. Sawyer did not strangle Cooper; he didn't kill anything; the 'body' in the body bag that Locke carried back to the Others was a mass of black rock dust approximating Cooper's weight and shape.


Discontent and Radzinsky cheats the Test
Bea Kulgh, an Other and former DHARMA initiate, sensed a shift from an idealistic community in 'Otherville' towards a totalitarian cult headed by Ben. She reached out for others who felt the same such as Richard, but it was difficult - any disobedience meant being brainwashed in the re-programming room (where we saw Karl). During her tour of duty in the Pearl, which was still active at the time, she was able to secretly communicate with Radzinsky and Inman via the computer. She fed them information from which - with their own reconnaissance - they were able to produce a map of the island and the hatches, which John Locke saw on the blast door in Lockdown. They removed part of the Orientation film that forbade communication via the computer so that, if they were found out and replaced, their replacements would not be hindered by that rule. And they formulated a plan to escape.

> Inman paints the map on the blast door



Radzinsky had been seeing images of his past - as all of the Losties have. He saw people he had tortured whilst working for the KGB. These visions were actually produced by Jacob/Cerberus. The point of the visions was as intense, life-changing therapy. It is believed that a person can overcome their own past, nature and fears to transcend into something pure and fit for DHARMA. Radzinsky had been seeing visions of a person he had tortured; he had cut out the prisoner's eye.

> Inman's knife - later in Goodwin's possession.

The culmination of this 'therapy' was a Test. We saw Eko fail his Test by refusing to repent for his past - this ended badly for him when he chased after Jacob/Cerberus. We also saw Hurley fail his test when he refused to take a leap of faith off a cliff - as urged by his imaginary-turned-real friend Dave.

Radzinsky's Test was to cut out his own eye - "an eye for an eye". He knew none of this was real, but they had a plan to escape for which he would do anything. Kneeling before his victim, as Eko would do, Radzinsky used Inman's US Army knife to cut out his own eye, thereby passing the Test.

When Radzinsky awoke, he was greeted by Benjamin Linus and the other Others. He was given a tour of 'Otherville'. He was given a glass eye and was put to work. He appeared to be receptive to the Others' aims but, in reality, all he wanted was to escape. He proceeded with the plan.


Subterfuge
At the right time, he blew up the Arrow hatch, killing several people. He radioed Inman, in the Swan, and ran across the island towards him. It would not take long before Jacob/Cerberus tracked him down, but he timed it right so that his dash would coincide with the rain showers to give him the biggest headstart possible... Jacob comes out after the rain; the moisture in the air increases the conductivity of his cloud.

> the conductivity of water assists Jacob's electromagnetic form - as demonstrated by Walt... when he projected his image from the other side of the island, he used water as the medium

Radzinsky made it to the Swan where Inman had prepared the trap. It was dark by now, and a bright light shone from the hatch; Jacob/Cerberus followed it down. Inman could see Jacob/Cerberus through his array of mirrors from the safe vantage point of the Swan lounge area. He saw Jacob/Cerberus approach; Jacob/Cerberus moved toward the open door. Radzinsky fused the lockdown door bringing it crashing down and turned the water on. The area outside the door - where Jacob/Cerberus was - filled with water. An exposed fusebox near the ladder caused a massive disruptive electrical current to pass through Jacob/Cerberus. Unfortunately, a small part of Jacob/Cerberus got under the door before being completely disabled. This part reformed as someone from Inman's past - a daughter perhaps, or a fallen comrade - whoever it was, Inman had not yet had the visions and was frozen with emotion. He could not act to destroy this loved one in front of him and would not heed Radzinksy's frantic pleading that it was not real and that they needed to escape now while they could. Radzinsky left him behind.


> the beam of light - to draw Jacob in



> fusebox, water hose and valve as picked out by Jack's torch



Back in the USSR
Radzinsky continued with the plan and left the Swan with the film cutting. He made his way to the Flame where he knew he would be able to communicate with the outside world and be rescued. When he got there, he was surprised to find it deserted and, what was more bizarre, prepared for him: there was a plentiful supply of Vodka, there was a computer that played chess, there was a cat, there was even a picture of Nadia Comaneci on the wall - the Olympic gymnast who shared his birthday. He sat in front of a bank of monitors and began trying to reach the outside world - it had been such a long time. Flicking through the channels, it became apparent that the Berlin Wall had fallen and the Soviet Union with it. Communication was pointless. He spent the next few days in a drunken stupor. Benjamin and the Others came to him.

> the cat AKA the cat from Sayid's past AKA Jacob AKA Smokey AKA Macavity the Mystery Cat (he's called 'The Hidden Paw')

They agreed on a truce; he had killed some of them but he could not be held completely responsible as he had not passed the Test in truth and had not been truly ready to join DHARMA. They allowed him to live so long as he never came to their camp, never fraternised with any of them, and worked at the Flame as their communications man. He would be completely autonomous, with his own livestock. He asked about Inman; they told him that Inman had been 'persuaded' that Radzinsky had killed himself - they had placed a faceless corpse in the Swan for him to discover when he woke up, which he would assume to be Radzinsky's and so bury him without questioning.

At this point, the cat changed shape becoming a swirling mass of black dust - it was Jacob/Cerberus albeit temporarily smaller. Jacob/Cerberus renamed Radzinsky as Bakunin - after the famous Russian anarchist - as he had rejected leadership. He told him that his trap in the Swan had interfered with the release of electromagnetism and had created another anomaly: a light aircraft from Nigeria was brought down. The crashing of a small plane and the loss of a few lives in itself might not be such an anomaly - as Destiny can 'course-correct' to a certain extent - what was more problematic was that the plane was carrying drugs. The consequence of the plane crashing - when it had never been destined to crash - was that there would be a massive slump in supply of the drug, affecting many more lives (including Charlie's) - and the knock-on effect was incalculable.


Flight 815
Bakunin was tasked with tracking down the effects of the anomaly as it spread through the world and to profile each person whose life would be significantly affected by it. These people were connected one way or another to this crash or to each other and the anomaly would ripple outwards creating greater and greater waves. Bakunin tracked them down using the Flame. These people were - one way or another - put on the same plane at the same time and brought to the island so that Destiny could be corrected.... Jack, Kate, Charlie, Sawyer, Rose and the rest of Flight 815. Destiny and the Others were course-correcting.


Epilogue
Bakunin returned to the burntout Arrow station. He was remorseful. He deposited his hollowed-out Bible containing the film cutting, his glass eye which had been a gift from Ben, and the radio he had used to communicate with his friend Inman.

Much later, when Desmond turned the failsafe key in the Swan and caused it to implode, he was rescued by Jacob/Cerberus, but not before he had absorbed much of the Swan's power. Now, Desmond does not see the future but Destiny - how things are planned to happen - not necessarily how they will happen.

The Losties should never leave the island because this would cause disruptions in Destiny that could destroy the world. The Others are the good guys as they want to prevent this from happening.
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Last edited by andrew smith on Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:44 pm; edited 59 times in total
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fanaticallostfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like it. well thought out.
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just another other
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love this theory, and I have many more comments to add, but first, I have a question:

Why do you think that the island links with Manhattan?

I can see the points you are making, but I cannot see what gives you that idea....
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, the island is Manhatten, only on the opposite side of the planet (but its not) its technically in another dimension, the only way to get there is by travelling through the electromagnetic field that is produced by Manhatten?? Via the island?? Am I right so far?

All of the survivors are actually Dharma scientists that volunteered to take on the memories of the crash victims. How did the Dharma people take these memories if the plane passengers are dead?
John Locke is HIM, only he doesnt know it?

Why would the Dharma people risk their own lives, even throw away their previous lifes? Why not take any living survivors of the crash, give them a tour of the island that is the opposite of Manhatten and tell them you are trying to preserve human existence and Im sure they will be glad to help out.....

Dont get me wrong, this is a very nice theory, some very good points that good very well be true, but it is to hard to believe.
Why Manhatten? What is shadow matter? And how did the Dharma scientists get to this "island" in the first place?
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Papoose
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This theory andy boy is awesome but its one that asks alot of questions as much as it answers..

1. fenry claiming god didnt even kno how long they had been there.. well like the earth itself it had to come from somewhere and how did the first man or woman.. get to this place and set up the dharma initiative..

unless they figured out a parallel portal and used it to get there..

is this y jack etc were taken.. to recreate their memoires.. give them a touchup

so many q's!! ill wait for part 4

amazing thus far.. and thats coming from me!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew... I'm speachless. Very well thought out, very well explained, the comic is sweet, the story is great, and the idea is grand.

The way you explain this theory seems to utilize a theory that was introduced a few years ago called the string theory (now just a part of an even more complicated "M-theory"). As I understand it, the string theory states that the universe is home to 11 dimensions, 4 of which we can understand (height, width, depth, and space/time) the other dimensions are ones we cannot see or even possibly concieve due to the limited capacity of our minds, so, even though we can't tell they are there, they still are and they would allow us to achieve unbelievable feats.

The way I think this theory connects here is because in string theory it is totally possibe to have a portal open up from any point in space/time to another, so it could be from where you are sitting right now to when a piece of the earth broke off and created the moon. The point is travel through dimensions in very short periods of time. Although it would seem like a few seconds maybe, it could possibly be through billions of years.

I don't really know if this connects to the theory, but it just crossed my mind while reading this excellent story. Wink

Please give us more.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its always a treat to read your stuff. Always very well thought out (with what info you have atm), makes sense, and you even take the time to illustrate your ideas. The only draw back, imo, is that there isn't enough. (there's plenty, its just so entertaining I need more!!!!)

I just wanted to ask you about the drawings (I still haven't fully processed the theory itslef). For main characters, do you trace screencaps/pics? I can draw accurate enough portraits, but not in comic lineart style. either way, Charlie and Claire: really nicely done.
Also, how much time do you invest in making all these drawing?

Kudos again.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok this is a pretty silly objection...and im sure you'll find a way to work around it (i hope so at least) but central park doesn't start until 110th street while you have it down as 108th

also, you make reference to the fact that the real sawyer had a previous life as a musician in that group.

but when he died his memories were implanted into one of the dharma scientists who assumed the identity of sawyer

so why would the real sawyer and the scientist who assumed his indentity look the same?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that's a lot to process in one sitting. Amazingly original is the first phrase that comes to mind.

However there are a bunch of problems/questions I have about it thus far.

The first and most obvious is the cellular regrowth of limbs which I've discussed with you before but what I see as next to impossible without some startling medical breakthroughs.

Next, I think the tie in with the NY subway knocking over the trees is a phenomenal link to Rose recognizing the sound but I can't force myself to buy their island somehow being in the same physical space as Manhattan. Everything is supposedly explainable by science or quasi-science but I don't think creating your own form of matter is either one of those.

Also, you say Fenry was one of the earlier experiments but why does he suddenly then revert back to being an Other and realizing that he is, in fact, not Henry Gale. It seems to me that if he accepted his new memories as much as you say he did then he shouldn't be so quick to make an about-face.

Quote:
Later on, Locke reminds Jack that him meeting Desmond again - of all the people on Earth - would be impossible. But the truth is that Jack has spent years in the box as a Dharma scientist and hates the place. Literally, he was Jack in the box. This is further hinted at when Locke and Eko find the Pearl's surveillance monitors and see only Jack walking to and fro on the CCTV camera in the Swan hatch. This footage could be (but probably isn't) from years ago.


LOVE 'Jack in the box' but if the new "Jack" is really a Dharma initiative scientist who was implanted with the newly deceased, real Jack's memories wouldn't the Dharma Jack look different on old video. Don't know if that makes sense but basically: shouldn't DHARMA JACK look different in surveillance footage from when he was manning the hatch years ago to REAL JACK.

Another problem along those lines: Rose and Locke met in the terminal before the plane took off and then she recognizes him on the island when she tells Locke something like..."We both know we got cured by the island". But, if I'm reading your theory correctly, both Dharma Rose and Hanso look different from Real Rose and Real Locke...SOOOO how can she recognize him on the island? You said reflections of the real memory owners are erased (i.e. Fenry doesn't think he's black when he's actually white). But how can Rose recognize faux Locke/Alvar Hanso if she's seen the real Locke?

My final question is basic: Why does Dharma care so much about fate? It's intruiging how you make it out as genetic, but...so what? Do they have some higher purpose once they figure out the specifics of fate?

Sorry if this sounds overly critical but I really did enjoy reading your theory. Extremely well written; makes something hard to understand a lot easier. I look forward to part 3, hopefully you can connect in HF's other projects and stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet again mr smith rocks
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: just another other:
Why Manhattan?
The Losties have not been rescued yet and we have not seen any search parties.
So... EITHER the island is, in some way, invisible
OR moving
OR in a different time
OR ALL of the above.

We can discount the invisible thing because if the scientists know to associate the disappearance of the plane - or Desmond's boat - with an electromagnetic anomaly, then there must be a record of an anomaly somewhere... so they should already have a location or locations to pinpoint the island or a search area, at least.

We can discount the moving thing because it would have to be moving at some knots to avoid detection if someone with Penny's means was actively looking for it; the Losties would also notice and would start water-skiing in the island's wake.

We can discount the different time thing because, in the Finale, it seemed like Penny and the scientists picked up the 'electromagnetic anomaly' at the same time it happened on the island. And time travel is even more far-fetched than other dimensions.

Desmond - unless he was sailing in a circle because he's an idiot - sailed for long enough to see land, but didn't. Other things, like the light aircraft, have been pulled in from all over the globe. So it's as though the location of the island does not really lessen the power - whatever the power is - of the island: it has global reach.

But also bear in mind that the people who've crashed on it - seemingly by accident - tend to be round Australia way. Also consider: if the only footprint the island leaves on the outside world is electromagnetic anomalies - where would you conceal it if you could put it ANYWHERE and physical space was not a problem (as demonstrated by Desmond's infinite sea)? In a city. In a big city with lots on energy consumption. Bearing in mind that the show is American, what city would they choose? Manhattan is roughly the polar opposite of Sydney and it's a great city. Manhattan is positively glowing with energy leaking out everywhere - from the underground, from substations, from masts. There have been enough references to polar phenomena - polar bears, kooky compasses, plane navigation systems going haywire and more - and New York - to suggest there's a reason. I probably need to re-watch some episodes to fortify this argument, but it does have a precedent - Planet of the Apes - the classic moment when Charlton Heston is ambling along a beach and sees the Statue of Liberty poking out the sand.


There are other little clues if you look for them and you're prepared to take a leap of faith. Such as: the Apollo bars in the Swan hatch; there was a lot of discussion about stars and stuff; however, there's a famous cinema in New York called the Apollo theatre!


Also the parks mentioned happen to correspond to the streets - 4th, 8th, 15th etc.. This may just be a coincidence - there are other parks in New York; such as the Ampere Playground near Radio Drive and Ohm Avenue in the Bronx.


re:johnboywalton:
It was necessary that the passengers died. If their memories were implanted into someone else and they hadn't died at any point, there would simply be two Jacks, two Kates, two Sawyers - pairs of identities that would die at the same times of the same things - maybe leprosy, being shot, a coconut dropping from a tree. Their Fates had to have ended in order to be of any use. If you absorb a Fate - a path in life - that has already ended - then how can it end again - that's the point. Thus: eternal life and immunity to the Plague. Tabula rasa. You would be writing fresh pages in a book that Death is no longer reading - because he's already seen the ending and it was fifty days ago!

Shadow matter is particles and forces that exist in a slightly different dimension but in the same physical space as our dimension, and which also shares weak forces like gravity.

The Dharma scientists would gladly sacrifice their own memories because they want humanity to survive. And there is every possibility that they resume their own memories some time in the future.


re: Papoose:
Henry's comments that even God couldn't see this island came as much from despair than anything else. But, I think he meant that - because the people here are, in terms of Fate, non-existent - then God isn't watching.


re: T-minus108:
I've read enough about String Theory to confuse me. There is an element of it in this theory, but there's no time travel involved. It could be happening several years after the initial crash but the years have passed in a linear fashion.


re: 5parta:
I do use screencaps. I sketch/plan a comic roughly on paper. Then draw the page in Photoshop with a tablet, bringing in screencaps - modifying faces, increasing contrast etc - to produce a monochrome page. I print this page off as a tint of Cyan on decent paper. Stretch the paper. Then ink the page using the Cyan as a loose guide - Indian Ink, nibs and brushes. I scan the page back in. Because the Photoshop underdrawing was in Cyan, it is easily filtered out to leave a stark black and white layout. This is put on a Multiply layer in photoshop and colour is put underneath on different shape layers. And then text bubbles are added. Then it's Saved for Web!

Takes about 4 minutes.
But if I wasn't drawing comics, I'd be painting other anyway. It's a compulsion.


re: cappy-made-noodles:
On my map 108th is near the top of Central Park!

The Sawyer on the front of the Geronimo LP is the Dharma scientist before he took Sawyer's memories. Before then he probably sounded like Dolly Parton and minced when he walked.


re: PKTjellis:
It is far-fetched but it is a far-fetched show.

Henry's current personality is a little split. He remembers experiences he has never actually experienced. But on a conscious level - as a scientist - he knows these experiences are not real. Like waking from a powerful moving dream.

The Jack in the Pearl footage is almost certainly real-time footage. But I think it is significant that only Jack appeared.

All the memories have been altered to compensate for differences in remembered appearances. A lot of the passengers had crossed paths before Flight 815; the memories were adjusted retrospectively to make the faces fit.

The higher purpose of a scientific identification of Fate is so that Death can be avoided. They are fighting against a worldwide plague - it's survival by any means necessary. If Fate exists and determines the point of death then adopting the Fate of someone already dead would mean Fate no longer had a death planned for you in the future. You only die once.
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PKTjellis
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew smith wrote:

The higher purpose of a scientific identification of Fate is so that Death can be avoided. They are fighting against a worldwide plague - it's survival by any means necessary. If Fate exists and determines the point of death then adopting the Fate of someone already dead would mean Fate no longer had a death planned for you in the future. You only die once.


Interesting...So two questions now:

1. I'm kinda confused about the plague thing. Was it already a problem when the Losties were boarding 815 and before that? Wouldn't they see it in flashbacks no matter whose body the memories are in?

2. I figured you were getting at that: fate says you can only die once so if you outlive fate then you can't die.

...my problem is this: If fate is genetic it shouldn't matter whose memories you have because memories don't alter genes. So Hanso might now have John Locke's memories but he still has his own (Alvar Hanso's) genes. If he still has his own genes, he still has his own fate, how could he have 'cheated' fate in any way?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the crux of the theory: memories CAN alter genes ... or at least, the biology of person so significantly that Fate takes them for a different person. I know it's sci-fi and impossible... at the moment!

But, on a philosphical point:
IF everything is pre-destined
AND
IF genes describe our futures in a limited way - how we grow, predisposition to cancer, myopia, blood disorders etc..
THEN - in a very real way - our genes ARE our Fate. To what extent is debatable - but not really known.

A person can trace his genes and they will tell him a lot about his ancestors - maybe it can tell us about our descendants also.

Again: I know it's sci-fi.
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ctheokas
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just about Central Park and 108th street... Central Park is bounded on each side by Central Park South, Central Park West, Central Park North, and 5th Avenue. However, 110th Street turns into Central Park North. So you could argue it's bound in by 110th Street.

However, since Smith doesn't say CP is delineated by 108th Street to the north, he's not wrong in his theory - at least, for that reason.

While I agree that time travel isn't involved, I do believe that time is going to be an issue. I wouldn't be surpirsed if we find out that time flows slower on the island than on the rest of the world.
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Cutter
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did it again, Andrew. Great job.
Particularly I love the Manhattan tie-in being a New Yorker myself (although just for law school, I was raised in Connecticut). And Central Park does start (or end depending on how you see it) at 110th but that doesn't really mess with your theory since 108th is still in Central Park territory technically.

The only thing I was wondering is if you considered how your theory may clash with the ARG? Since the ARG seems to be happening in real-time (2006) does your theory simply disregard the ARG or does it tie in some other way?


Again, thanks for the great work.
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